IDF 2014: Where is Thunderbolt Headed?by Ganesh T S & Mahendra Lodha on September 14, 2014 7:45 AM EST
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- IDF 2014
Coverage of Thunderbolt devices has been expanded on our site over the last few months. At IDF, we took the opportunity to chat with Intel about where Thunderbolt was headed.
The current market perception is one of Thunderbolt being relevant only to Mac users. But, a look at the products that Intel showcases, indicate that there are plenty of PC components (motherboards as well as workstations) that come with the technology integrated. Thunderbolt users on Windows have traditionally found that the technology doesn't live up to its advertised potential. Common complaints include
- Purchased peripherals don't carry certification on Windows
- Hot plugging peripherals doesn't work reliably
- Performance in terms of both bandwidth and latency end up being better on Mac compared to Windows for the same workloads
These issues have turned out to be a vicious circle - Mac users end up getting targeted with more Thunderbolt peripherals (for example, storage manufacturers pre-format their devices in HFS+ format), and this, in turn, lowers the appeal of these devices to Windows users. Irrespective of one's personal preference, it is an undeniable fact that Windows still rules the desktop and notebook market by a big margin. Without extensive adoption on the PC side, there is no doubt that Thunderbolt would go the way of FireWire, a technology that slowly faded into oblivion because Apple was the only vendor who invested in promoting it.
Expanding Thunderbolt's Reach with PCIe Expansion Cards
In the process of migrating from the Z77 / Z87 to the Z97 chipset, Intel tried to drive up Thunderbolt adoption by allowing motherboard makers to provide support via an add-in card. This kept the price of the motherboard low by avoiding the cost of integrating and verifying the Thunderbolt ASIC. The board layout only had to support a Thunderbolt header. The routing of the Display Port was also done externally.
Only interested consumers needed to pay the premium for the interface. In their motherboard segmentation plans for Thunderbolt, Intel intended these Add-In Cards (AICs) only for the X79 and H87 / H97 / Q87 chipsets. Z87 and Z97 motherboards were supposed to have Thunderbolt silicon on board. Unfortunately for Intel, many motherboard makers (including Asus) decided that the add-on card would be the best way to go forward, and didn't release any Z97 boards with integrated Thunderbolt support. This meant that the DIY market, for the most part, completely ignored Thunderbolt.
Thunderbolt on PCs: A Crippled Experience
The reason for the far from optimal experience with Thunderbolt on PCs boils down to two different aspects, the hardware and the software. In terms of hardware, Intel has never allowed motherboard vendors to hang the Thunderbolt silicon / add-in card off the CPU's PCIe lanes. These have to hang off the platform controller hub (PCH). On the other hand, Apple was allowed to hook up the Thunderbolt silicon directly to the CPU. The reason behind this leads us to the software side of things.
Apple has full control over the operating system. Hanging Thunderbolt peripherals directly off the CPU's PCIe lanes requires extensive support from the operating system, particularly when it comes to hot plugging devices and/or waking up peripherals from sleep mode. Over the PCIe lanes off the PCH, Intel has more control via its chipset drivers. Ultimately, it looks like Microsoft dropped the ball and Intel decided to come up with a certification solution by only allowing Thunderbolt silicon to talk to the PCH for all PC boards.
While Microsoft continues to twiddle its thumbs, Intel has decided to come up with less restrictive hardware suggestions to bridge the Thunderbolt experience gap between Macs and PCs.
Thunderbolt's Future - X99 Brings Promise, Driver Features Add Utility
The X99 platform's Thunderbolt capabilities were barely touched upon in the initial Haswell-E reviews. Part of the problem was that none of the motherboards from major vendors had support with on-board silicon. However, it is actually a very important chipset launch for the Thunderbolt on PCs ecosystem because Intel has finally allowed the AICs to hang off the CPU's PCIe lanes. A restriction is that the AIC must have support for a switch to disable the sleep mode for all the Thunderbolt devices in the chain, though this could conceivably go away if Microsoft fixes Windows for this issue.
In terms of updates to Thunderbolt itself, we are yet to see a move to PCIe 3.0. However, the drivers have been updated to enable 'Thunderbolt Networking'. This involves linking multiple PCs / Macs with Thunderbolt cables. A 10 Gbps network is automatically created (in the form of a 'dummy' network adapter). Macs and PCs can talk with each other to share printers and folders. For small workgroups, this could be an effective way to achieve 10 Gbps networking without the costly and noisy switches.
In conclusion, Thunderbolt is making great progress and PC users can expect things to get better in the future. In addition to Apple, lots of other vendors are also throwing in support for Thunderbolt in their workstations and notebooks. It would have been great to have a new version of Thunderbolt with PCIe 3.0 along with the X99 launch. But, we already know it is not going to be the case till Skylake launches. That said, it will be a priority for Intel and Microsoft to get the performance and experience right with current silicon for now.
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Murloc - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - linkPeople nerdy enough to know that their specific computer needs a better GPU to play a game are just a minority of the total, and usually do not play on a laptop. It's too small, it's probably not even worth it if they have at least one decent region not to do it (like hurting nvidia/amd).
Essence_of_War - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - linkWhat is the status of TB support for Linux distros, BSDs, etc? Similar to what you mentioned for windows because they don't use custom hardware like Apple?
I'm in interested in that too! :)
tuxRoller - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - linkNot ready yet. MG has said as much.
MartinT - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - link"But, we already know it is not going to be the case till Skylake launches."
If Skylake goes the way of Broadwell, we won't have to worry if Thunderbolt can hang off the CPU for simple lack of PCIe on there.
r3loaded - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - linkPrice is still Thunderbolt's biggest issue. When cables cost $50, docks cost $200 and DAS costs a few hundred, consumers won't be interested. Especially when USB 3.0 already does 5Gbps and 3.1 will hit 10Gbps.
dgingeri - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - linkTwo big problems with thunderbolt on PCs:
1. It takes 4 PCIe lanes from the chipset, which only has 6 or 8, depending on the motherboard maker's design decisions. This significantly reduces what else can be done with the motherboard. If it is on a socket 1150 board, which is all there is so far, the Haswell architecture, with only 16 PCIe lanes from the CPU, restricts it even more. It's like they're trying to force a mATX spec, which doesn't work for most PC enthusiasts.
2. It's geared toward Intel's integrated graphics, which sucks. Sure, it can be done with an external GPU, with with the restrictions in the previous item, that is even difficult to do.
There are three major things they need to do to ramp up adoption: put 4 more PCIe lanes on the mainstream chipset, make a passthrough for external graphics available, and make it available on Haswell-E. It won't see adoption on PCs without these.
SirKnobsworth - Monday, September 15, 2014 - linkThe first issue will be more or less solved in the future - Thunderbolt 3 will be allowed to hang off of an x2 interface, and the PCHs paired with Skylake have more PCIe lanes too.
The Hardcard - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - linkWhy can't Thunderbolt off the CPU be implemented in UEFi? It wouldn't solve the hot swap or wake issues, but it would enhance Thunderbolt's killer applications, external graphics and 40 Gbps networking.
Yes Thunderbolt 3 with 8+ lanes of PCIe 3.0. Plus enough power for top end laptop discrete GPU. Users would accept plugging a desktop GPU separately into the wall.
That would make it worthwhile for PC and Mac users. Mac buyers have to buy Thunderbolt, but I'll bet the overwhelming majority of the Mac Thunderbolt ports lay idle.
jameskatt - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - link1. The majority of Mac Thunderbolt ports are used to attach a second monitor to the Mac. This may be a Thunderbolt, DVI , HDMI or DisplayPort Monitor via adapters.
2. The other group of Mac Users attach a Thunderbolt Dock to the port which gives the Mac extra USB3, Firewire 800, eSATA, Gigabit Ethernet, HDMI, or Audio In & Out ports
3. And the other group of Mac Users use Thunderbolt for connection to RAID storage devices - which can go much faster than USB3 devices can.
TEAMSWITCHER - Sunday, September 14, 2014 - linkThunderbolt really isn't needed on desktop computers because they have PCIe, but for laptops it should be a standard. USB is an old and ugly standard, with 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, ports and soon a new reversible port....none of which can daisy chain or carry a 4K video signal.
Laptops desperately need something to replace the PCIe and Thunderbolt is perfect. PC makers need to wake up and provide one port on ultra-books and two on high end notebooks, matching Apple's MacBook Air and MacBook Pro. 'Nuf Said.