Just wondering - if it can function at -40C, then what could stop it from functioning at -100C, or at absolute zero for that matter? It's not as if it relies on liquids or gases for operation - it's solid state by definition... Anyone know?
Colder temperatures start effecting things at a molecular level. So going colder you start effecting how electrons are going through the circuit. This is what generally causes data corruption. As for absolute zero, magnetism basically disappears. So there is a limit, even for sold state devices.
"Don't superconducting magnets work down near zero?"
no, not really. their electromagnets, and *coils* in the pole pieces are vewy, vewy cold, but not magnetic material. you can get that from the Wiki. here's a piece on what happens to monolithic magnetic material when it gets vewy, vewy cold: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2007/feb/...
I believe that article refers to the application of strong magnetic fields (above the "critical magnetic field" of superconductors), not to their critical temperature (Tc), which is what the question was really about (with superconductors allowing the *construction* of "superconducting magnets", rather than being inherently magnetic - since they are diamagnetic).
Would a superconductor retain zero resistance at a highly speculative (but impossible, since 0K means zero entropy, which is not allowed - and this doubly speculative and impossible, since we are talking about removing all thermal energy while retaining the electric current) absolute zero or would its Cooper pairs of electrons freeze in place? I honestly have no idea, but I am quite sure it would work at nanoKelvin and even picoKelvin and lower.
Industrial used to be rated for -55C but switched to -40C when people realized the extra 15 degrees of verification didn't justify cooling methods more exotic than plain old LN2. Unless you're sending stuff into space does it really matter? If you are then verification is probably more than half of the cost of the components.
At colder temperatures many materials become more brittle which affects the mechanical strength of the object. (I recently read an article about one of the telescopes operated at the south pole; one of the challenges they listed for the extreme conditions was that plastic wire insulation only rated for -40 would become as brittle and rigid as glass at -110C)
Differential thermal contraction is becomes more extreme as temperatures drop lower; to avoid the product bend/breaking itself materials with more similar contraction rates and/or more strain relief are needed at -100C than at -40.
The biggest problem is in fact mechanical stress. Just in a different way you imagine. In cars huge temperature differences exist.
In Summer its hot as hell there and the electronics get even hotter because of their own operation. But if you shut the car down in a garage, the temperature will still drop quite a bit.
In Winter its very cold but gets pretty warm inside the car when the heater is turned on and the electronics heat themselves up. But if you turn the car off, it will cool down massively and quickly, since few cars are well insulated.
What I am trying to explain, is that huge temperature change is the culprit. It makes solder connections brittle over time, because they expand and contract with temperature changes. Say you use a normal consumer mainboard in a car (and some have done this - CarPCs), it will show defects after just a few years, if its not a car that you only drive in Summer. Even if its a Summer-car, its still likely it will show problems soon, because youre most likely storing it over the winter, which wont be at Summer temperatures. And even in mild climates you will see issues, because the vibrations in a car will affect solder connections as well and the solder connections on a consumer board wont be designed to withstand a lot of vibration.
And thats why turning electronics on and off is such a huge strain on them. Especially with the relatively new RoHS, which forces manufacturers to use lower quality solder or solder with different properties.
If you open electronics in older cars (80s and 90s), you will see they have huge solder connections. Thats not because back then they werent able to do finer things, but thats actually to counter what I just explained. Today electronics control everything in a car. Often they use small computer units for everything and everywhere, which are also all interconnected. Those arent soldered like in the 80s or 90s anymore. They are small and its all very tight together. If something loses contact, it can affect things that even engineers cant predict. Thats why there are such huge electronic issues with cars nowadays, problems even mechanic shops dont understand and are never able to fix.
Extreme temperature cycling puts enormous stress on physical components of the package like the interconnects since they are made of different materials and experience processes such as thermal expansion/contraction differently. These devices can CERTAINLY survive above and below those temp values, but the qualification is to meet that operating range with very high reliability over the lifetime of a vehicle. For consumer electronics, these "burn in" tests are typically to simulate 10 years of normal use as the quality threshold. For automotive there are greater reliability concerns since a failed auto part can lead to a crash, where a failed memory controller on a phone is a bricked device that doesn't kill anyone. Depending on the automotive spec, the testing requirements expand from 10 years to 15 or 20, and the temperature range you must certify safe lifelong operation within expand significantly (there are wider ranges in more strict specs).
What lag? You mean the delay after pushing a button? Thats by design. Why? I dont know. But Ive seen code of different infotainment systems. They all have artificial delays put in there.
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boeush - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
Just wondering - if it can function at -40C, then what could stop it from functioning at -100C, or at absolute zero for that matter? It's not as if it relies on liquids or gases for operation - it's solid state by definition... Anyone know?quiksilvr - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
Colder temperatures start effecting things at a molecular level. So going colder you start effecting how electrons are going through the circuit. This is what generally causes data corruption. As for absolute zero, magnetism basically disappears. So there is a limit, even for sold state devices.extide - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
Magnetism disappears at near zero? Don't superconducting magnets work down near zero?FunBunny2 - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
"Don't superconducting magnets work down near zero?"no, not really. their electromagnets, and *coils* in the pole pieces are vewy, vewy cold, but not magnetic material. you can get that from the Wiki. here's a piece on what happens to monolithic magnetic material when it gets vewy, vewy cold: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2007/feb/...
Santoval - Tuesday, December 19, 2017 - link
I believe that article refers to the application of strong magnetic fields (above the "critical magnetic field" of superconductors), not to their critical temperature (Tc), which is what the question was really about (with superconductors allowing the *construction* of "superconducting magnets", rather than being inherently magnetic - since they are diamagnetic).Would a superconductor retain zero resistance at a highly speculative (but impossible, since 0K means zero entropy, which is not allowed - and this doubly speculative and impossible, since we are talking about removing all thermal energy while retaining the electric current) absolute zero or would its Cooper pairs of electrons freeze in place? I honestly have no idea, but I am quite sure it would work at nanoKelvin and even picoKelvin and lower.
willis936 - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
Industrial used to be rated for -55C but switched to -40C when people realized the extra 15 degrees of verification didn't justify cooling methods more exotic than plain old LN2. Unless you're sending stuff into space does it really matter? If you are then verification is probably more than half of the cost of the components.Zingam - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
They did it to fuck up Russian and Canadian business!DanNeely - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
In addition to electrical effects,At colder temperatures many materials become more brittle which affects the mechanical strength of the object. (I recently read an article about one of the telescopes operated at the south pole; one of the challenges they listed for the extreme conditions was that plastic wire insulation only rated for -40 would become as brittle and rigid as glass at -110C)
Differential thermal contraction is becomes more extreme as temperatures drop lower; to avoid the product bend/breaking itself materials with more similar contraction rates and/or more strain relief are needed at -100C than at -40.
extide - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
It will likely work fine at much lower than -40, it's just only qualified/guaranteed to run down to that level.Zingam - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
How about mechanical stress on the materials?If you freeze it to -100 deg it might never work again.
Beaver M. - Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - link
The biggest problem is in fact mechanical stress. Just in a different way you imagine. In cars huge temperature differences exist.In Summer its hot as hell there and the electronics get even hotter because of their own operation. But if you shut the car down in a garage, the temperature will still drop quite a bit.
In Winter its very cold but gets pretty warm inside the car when the heater is turned on and the electronics heat themselves up. But if you turn the car off, it will cool down massively and quickly, since few cars are well insulated.
What I am trying to explain, is that huge temperature change is the culprit. It makes solder connections brittle over time, because they expand and contract with temperature changes. Say you use a normal consumer mainboard in a car (and some have done this - CarPCs), it will show defects after just a few years, if its not a car that you only drive in Summer. Even if its a Summer-car, its still likely it will show problems soon, because youre most likely storing it over the winter, which wont be at Summer temperatures.
And even in mild climates you will see issues, because the vibrations in a car will affect solder connections as well and the solder connections on a consumer board wont be designed to withstand a lot of vibration.
And thats why turning electronics on and off is such a huge strain on them. Especially with the relatively new RoHS, which forces manufacturers to use lower quality solder or solder with different properties.
If you open electronics in older cars (80s and 90s), you will see they have huge solder connections. Thats not because back then they werent able to do finer things, but thats actually to counter what I just explained. Today electronics control everything in a car. Often they use small computer units for everything and everywhere, which are also all interconnected. Those arent soldered like in the 80s or 90s anymore. They are small and its all very tight together. If something loses contact, it can affect things that even engineers cant predict.
Thats why there are such huge electronic issues with cars nowadays, problems even mechanic shops dont understand and are never able to fix.
FullmetalTitan - Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - link
Extreme temperature cycling puts enormous stress on physical components of the package like the interconnects since they are made of different materials and experience processes such as thermal expansion/contraction differently.These devices can CERTAINLY survive above and below those temp values, but the qualification is to meet that operating range with very high reliability over the lifetime of a vehicle.
For consumer electronics, these "burn in" tests are typically to simulate 10 years of normal use as the quality threshold. For automotive there are greater reliability concerns since a failed auto part can lead to a crash, where a failed memory controller on a phone is a bricked device that doesn't kill anyone. Depending on the automotive spec, the testing requirements expand from 10 years to 15 or 20, and the temperature range you must certify safe lifelong operation within expand significantly (there are wider ranges in more strict specs).
vortmax2 - Monday, December 18, 2017 - link
The question is: Will this take some of the lag out of typical car infotainment systems?? I sure hope so.Beaver M. - Wednesday, December 20, 2017 - link
What lag? You mean the delay after pushing a button?Thats by design. Why? I dont know. But Ive seen code of different infotainment systems. They all have artificial delays put in there.